Spoiler alert! This story contains details from the final episode of Penguin on HBO.
HBO’s dark tale about the rise of Oswald Chesterfield Cobblepot is over, and not surprisingly, Lauren LeFranc’s limited series leaves us with some nagging questions.
Why does this main character have to die at the end?
Will Sophia emerge from Arkham?
Is Oz’s mom already clear?
Is Batman about to save the day?
LeFranc provides some answers, along with what to expect in the future from DC’s classic villain.
Deadline Oz’s decision to kill Victor was very shocking in many ways. For one thing, he needs allies in this world, especially moving forward. Doesn’t he?
Lauren Lefranc I think so, but Oz doesn’t see it that way. With gangs, he has a second number to take out their bosses. That’s very influential in his mind. That’s Victor’s idea, in part, and that tells you a lot about Oz as well. He’s hoping that the people working under these bosses will feel indebted to him. And this is kind of creating his own coalition, a coalition that he would characterize as more democratic than it is now, but one in which he has power.
Deadline Did you intend for viewers to end up sympathizing with Sophia more than Oz? We can understand why she turned out badly because of the way she was treated, while it seemed as if Oz was born damaged to the core.
Lefranc I try to bring empathy to all the characters I write. It was really important for me, especially in the beginning with Oz, to really empathize with him. Regardless of his terrible decisions, I never wanted to make excuses for him. I wanted the audience to know who’s outside the gate, and when we reveal it, we see that there’s something a little bit weird about this kid. Many of his choices were to show how badly he wants to be with his mother, and how the impulsive decision he makes with his siblings becomes quite calculated over time. I think the tragedy there, or the despicable way Oz had so many opportunities to tell someone what was happening with his brothers in the tunnels, is that he didn’t say a word. As for Sophia, I see her as the closest thing we have to a heroine in our show, although of course she’s not. It was really important to me that we sided with Sofia as well, otherwise I think everyone would have cheered for Oz in the end. And I wanted to hurt his rise in some way. That’s pretty much why I created that fourth episode. I thought it was really important for Sophia to get a full episode where you can really experience her character. Some people are going to line up with Oz and others with Sophia. That’s the fun of having complex characters like this.
Deadline Sophia returned to Arkham. Why is Dr. Rush there?
Lefrank We established in Episode 4 that he chose to leave of his own volition. He brought himself back to be close to her and try to help her this time. It’s clear when we see her at the end, she’s not in an emotional state where she’s ready to receive that.
Deadline Obviously we’re all dying to hear what was said in that letter from Sophia’s half-sister. I suppose we’ll find out in the second season?
Lefrank I don’t know. We don’t have a second season right now, and we’ve always been the bridge between the first movie and the second movie. That’s always been the goal of this season. So any payoff for anything we created in our show would likely be in the second movie or after the second movie.
Deadline I’ve finally put the penguin on its tail!
Lefrank Yeah. Colin and I talked a lot about that, about imagining that he came from an event of a certain caliber, or a certain class, to justify that Oz would be in a Penguin suit to show that he had achieved a level of power. He’s in a penthouse, but it’s still on the east side of Gotham and Crown Point, and it’s run-down and abandoned. So it’s not the dream he envisioned for himself. We teased this building throughout the whole season. It’s an abandoned hotel, and we established it all over the Gotham skyline throughout the season. That was kind of our Easter egg.
Deadline We saw Oz’s mom cry. Does she still have her wits about her?
LeFrank She’s in a coma. What that really means is medically unclear to a lot of people. She can breathe on her own and is alive, but how aware she is of her surroundings is, frankly, a bit unclear.
Deadline Does Eve really love Oz or is she just playing with him?
Lefrank This is a complicated question. I think Eve and Oz have always had this history with each other and, in my opinion, she was his first sexual experience. And she’s also older. It was always important to me that Eve was a little bit older than Oz. I mean. [actress] Carmen Ejogo looks great, so I don’t know if people necessarily realized that. There’s this maternal quality that I’ve always tried to instill in her. However, it’s paid for by Oz. The whole thing for me was that love is transactional. It’s his biggest fear, but it’s something he’s really committed to. And so when he realizes that he can’t get his mother’s love the way he thinks he deserves it, and certainly the last time he was interacting with his mother – I told him he’s the devil – he creates his own delusion with Eve. He pays her to be there with him and tell him everything his mother won’t tell him. Eve is a survivor. There’s an affection that Eve has for Oz, and she chooses to stay with him.
Deadline Do you always know you want to end with Batman’s light in the sky?
LeFrank Yes. And that’s something we figured out early on. It felt like an elegant delivery of the movie. That was always a conversation between me and Matt Reeves. Should Batman be in our show or not? I know it’s become controversial to say he shouldn’t be, but I really felt like it detracted from our characters. Batman takes up a lot of space. So, in that respect, it didn’t fit the characters of our show. If Oz has now achieved a level of power where Batman notices him, that’s really what we wanted to point out at the end.
Deadline I’ve basically explained what’s going to happen. There will be a movie every now and then and theoretically another season Penguin If HBO would like to?
Lefranc Well, I don’t know. At the moment, no, we don’t have anything. We’re not really talking about the second season at this very moment. What we’ve always known is that we pick up from the first movie. We’re the bridge between the first movie and the second movie. And after that, there’s nothing I can say that would indicate in any way that there’s a future or not.
Theo Wargo photo/Getty
Deadline, what did you think of Colin’s comments about not wanting to wear those prosthetics again? Did you take him seriously?
LeFrank First of all, Colin is the nicest, sweetest, and best number one contact you could ever hope for. He’s very talented, of course. And what’s so funny to me is that when he would tell people that he was grumpy and whiny, I would say, I’ve never had that experience, and neither has anyone in our crew. He’s like a skilled guy and he handles the makeup chair very gracefully. So I don’t know. I mean, I’m sure he felt a lot of things. I know that Oz, as a character, becomes very psychologically dark as we reveal him more and more in the show. And Oz as a character has to do some really terrible things. That’s not an easy thing to live through. I definitely felt that as a writer. Writing someone like Oz, you start out kind of fun and liberating, and then you say, wow, that’s a very warped way to live in that level of darkness, for a long time. But I know Colin will be in the second movie.